I’m happy here to quote below Hugo’s recommendation of my site. Research continues to confirm the central nervous system fluid circulation dysfunction in MS, coming from different directions. What this means is that MSers need to take the « bull by the horns » and find out for themselves where their problem lies. Just attacking the immune system response isn’t good enough, in fact, it is potentially dangerous and based on lazy thinking. I need now to re-write my main paper to make myself worthy of Hugo’s compliment. (I'm Vesta.) Much has happened since my first entry dated March 2012, (the last on March 1, 2017, the whole series can be found under « more ».) To sum up quickly the evolution of my thinking, I began with CCSVI experts Professor Zamboni and Dr Sclafani, moved on to incorporate the knowledge of chiropractor Dr Michael Flanagan and FONAR MRI inventor Dr Raymond Damadian, then that of migraine/trigeminal neuralgia expert, Dr Owiesy. More recently I've taken an interest in Simon Ewart Grist’s magnetite theory as well as « violin »s experience with Chlamydia. That's a brief summary, of course
Quotes below come from the ThisisMS.com site. https://www.thisisms.com/forum/
Under the CCSVI thread :
FRODO post Aug 17 2018
Re: Vascular problems in MS
"Maybe CCSVI theory is wrong, but there must be something related to the vascular system in MS. Two more reports about vascular problems associated to MS:
Hypertension and heart disease are associated with development of brain atrophy in multiple sclerosis
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... /ene.13769
Retinal vascular density in multiple sclerosis: a one year follow up
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... /ene.13770"
Response by Hugo Feb 7, 2019
"I don´t think theory CCSVI is wrong but the procedure is controversial (stents, angioplasty). I recommend you to visit Vesta's blog (www.mscureenigmas.net)which has gave a brilliant explanation to the vascular issue iMn multiple sclerosis. She has classified different vascular issues in MS patients. She also has posted some posts about it in this forum.
In my particular case I have CTOS but not CCSVI, but it seems clear that a vascular issue becomes part of the model of explanation of this complex disease."
Re: Vascular problems in MS
· Response by jimmylegs » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:16 pm
"related academic discussion:
google scholar search:
terms: vascular "multiple sclerosis"
65100 results (up to 2008)
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=vas ... s_yhi=2008
google scholar search:
terms: vascular "multiple sclerosis" -zamboni -ccsvi :
87600 results (2009 to present)
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=vas ... 09&as_yhi=
TiMS non-academic general discussion search:
terms: vascular -zamboni -ccsvi
460 results (2004-present)
search.php?keywords=vascular&terms=all& ... mit=Search"
Response by frodo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:48 am
"I would bet that pattern III MS is of vascular origin. It has been proved that it is related to hypoxia, which damages oligodendrocytes. Probably pattern II is due to EBV virus infection of B-cells. I don't hav a clue about the other patterns."
Frodo (who I believe is an MD) regularly posts current MS research. Here is another example of research In support of my thesis that fluid circulation problems define MS.
July 30, 2018-08-02
Five-Year Longitudinal Study of Neck Vessel Cross-Sectional Area in Multiple Sclerosis
http://www.ajnr.org/content/early/2018/07/26/ajnr.A5738
BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE: Alterations of neck vessel cross-sectional area in multiple sclerosis have been reported. Our aim was to investigate the evolution of the neck vessel cross-sectional area in patients with MS and healthy controls during 5 years.
CONCLUSIONS: For 5 years, patients with MS showed significant cross-sectional area decrease of all major neck vessels,
regardless of the disease course and cardiovascular status.
July 28, 2018-07-30
PRO CCSVI by Dr Paolo Zamboni
Extracranial Veins in Multiple Sclerosis: Is There a Role for Vascular Surgery?
https://www.ejves.com/article/S1078-5884(18)30387-3/fulltext
Conclusions and Perspectives
From a pathophysiological point of view the post hoc analysis reported above suggests a role of impaired extracranial venous flow in lesion development in patients with MS, as well as the probability of significant advantages when the brain outflow is restored. This finding continues to support the CCSVI hypothesis and the contribution of the jugular flow to cerebral inflammation.
CCSVI still represents a new hypothesis to attempt to explain the pathogenesis of MS, but has not ultimately led to a viable minimally invasive sur=gical treatment option for all patients with this condition.1, 2 CCSVI presentation is complex, mostly with compressions associated with long endoluminal obstacles, where, as reported above, PTA is safe but often ineffective. We also know that the improvement of jugular vein flow achieved by open surgery in the vast majority of MS patients correlated with improved cerebral perfusion and decreased brain ventricle volume.4 But, of course, an open surgery option cannot be offered widely. Alternatively, of particular interest for the vascular surgeon and/or the interventional radiologist would be further technological development of venous stents. The latter would take into account the compliance properties of the vein wall, which, at the level of the internal jugular vein, causes a sixfold reduction in the cross sectional area when passing from the supine position to the sitting position.5
CCSVI created a great deal of controversy in the neurological community, but undoubtedly contributed to a better understanding of the function of the extracranial venous system.6
It has been demonstrated how extracranial venous function might influence brain perfusion, cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) flow, and CSF absorption.4, 7, 8 In other independent studies, the extracranial venous system was also found to be associated with other neurodegenerative conditions including Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and Meniere's diseases, suggesting the need for further investigations.9, 10, 11, 12 Vascular science is beginning to bridge the knowledge gap between the extracranial veins and the brain.
This development of vascular studies in the field of neurodegeneration is to be considered of extraordinary interest. In my opinion the cerebral vascular system plays a prominent role in the understanding of these pathologies, and the main extracranial vessels and vascular surgeons cannot be kept out of the game.
MORE POSTS BY FRODO
Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:12 am
Maybe the studies about the cervical lymphatic drainage and MS were right. We have news:
Abnormal cervical lymph nodes in multiple sclerosis: a preliminary ultrasound study
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 017-0829-4
Background
Cervical lymph nodes are the first drainage stations of the brain and therefore play a key role in neuroinflammatory disorders such as multiple sclerosis.
Objective
The aim of this study was to evaluate, by using ultrasound imaging, cervical lymph nodes in patients with multiple sclerosis and to ascertain if such patients have any clinical features to attest their role.
Methods
We enrolled 43 patients affected by relapsing–remitting multiple sclerosis (22 drug free and 21 under treatment with natalizumab or fingolimod), who underwent ultrasound examination. The morphology, diameters and volume of cervical lymph nodes were measured. We evaluated also a control group of 20 healthy volunteers.
Results
Between-group comparisons showed that the mean anteroposterior diameters in the cervical lymph nodes on both sides of the neck were significantly different (χ 2 = 19.5, p < 0.001 for right; χ 2 = 20.0, p < 0.001 for left). Post hoc contrasts showed that the mean anteroposterior diameters were greater both in drug-naive (mean ± SD 0.66 ± 0.20 cm; p < 0.001) and treated patients (0.55 ± 0.24 cm; p < 0.001) compared to healthy individuals (0.36 ± 0.19 cm). Moreover, significant difference (p < 0.001) was shown on comparing the mean volume of the cervical lymph nodes on both sides of the neck in the studied groups. No significant differences emerged between the drug-free and treated patients.
Conclusions
The abnormalities shown by ultrasound in cervical lymph nodes are related to deep ones and independent of the ongoing treatment, suggesting a relationship between lymphatic drainage and disease pathology.
TO CONTINUE FRODO POSTED THE FOLLOWING
by frodo» Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:00 pm
Hans Lassman is one of the leaders in MS research. He does not say the word "autoimmune" anymore, nor speaks too much about myelin.
Multiple Sclerosis Pathology.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29358320
Abstract
Multiple sclerosis (MS) is a chronic inflammatory demyelinating disease of the central nervous system (CNS), which gives rise to focal lesions in the gray and white matter and to diffuse neurodegeneration in the entire brain. In this review, the spectrum of MS lesions and their relation to the inflammatory process is described.
Pathology suggests that inflammation drives tissue injury at all stages of the disease.Focal inflammatory infiltrates in the meninges and the perivascular spaces appear to produce soluble factors, which induce demyelination or neurodegenerationeither directly or indirectly through microglia activation. The nature of these soluble factors, which are responsible for demyelinating activity in sera and cerebrospinal fluid of the patients, is currently undefined.Demyelination and neurodegeneration is finally accomplished by oxidative injury and mitochondrial damage leading to a state of "virtual hypoxia »
ME AGAIN/
SOLUBLE FACTORS …IN SERA AND CEREBROSPINAL FLUID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sera means blood fluid, we are talking about fluid circulation (blood/cerrebro-spinal fluid) through the central nervous system.
And finally, the latest news comes from Simon Ewart Grist who believes magnetite (iron) in the blood damages the CNS, that it can be and should be removed by venous blood flowing down the aorta to be chelated by the kidneys and excreted. The most striking improvement I am aware of concerns eyesight. More details later. One issue in removing the magnetite through the veins implies « lubricating » the endothelium to prevent venous obstructions.
Then recently « violin » has begun antibiotic treatment for Chlamydia. ‘(She is already being treated for lime disease) It has been suggested that Chlamydia has triggered an MS epidemic. (See Chlamydia, Faroe Islands) So let’s say this infection clogs up the vascular system, impedes elimination of magnetite, for example, leading to damage to the brain/spine. So for this one subset of MS patients, antibiotic treatment may lead to a « cure ». Except the focus should be on how the infection impacts blood flow, not the infection itself.
I am here throwing out various ideas I need to incorporate in my next introductory essay for MSCureEnigmas.net.
One final comment before I close. Currently Neurologists recommend launching treatment for MS as soon as possible. They are right to recommend rapid treatment, especially for RRMS, but I believe wrong in the treatment they recommend - DMDs. Yes, the sooner one launches into my Seven Steps to Multiple Sclerosis Health (for example) the better. But no one should let themselves get railroaded into drug treatment. Be informed. The drugs are potentially dangerous and one can’t be weaned off them without some serious risks if one wants to try another approach. And, according to renowned MS researcher Dr George Ebers, they don’t prevent descent into disability.
Tags : Multiple Sclerosis treatment, Dr Paolo Zamboni, Dr Sclafani, Dr Hans Lassman, Dr Michael Flanagan, Dr Damadian, CCSVI, Chlamydia,
Quotes below come from the ThisisMS.com site. https://www.thisisms.com/forum/
Under the CCSVI thread :
FRODO post Aug 17 2018
Re: Vascular problems in MS
"Maybe CCSVI theory is wrong, but there must be something related to the vascular system in MS. Two more reports about vascular problems associated to MS:
Hypertension and heart disease are associated with development of brain atrophy in multiple sclerosis
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... /ene.13769
Retinal vascular density in multiple sclerosis: a one year follow up
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... /ene.13770"
Response by Hugo Feb 7, 2019
"I don´t think theory CCSVI is wrong but the procedure is controversial (stents, angioplasty). I recommend you to visit Vesta's blog (www.mscureenigmas.net)which has gave a brilliant explanation to the vascular issue iMn multiple sclerosis. She has classified different vascular issues in MS patients. She also has posted some posts about it in this forum.
In my particular case I have CTOS but not CCSVI, but it seems clear that a vascular issue becomes part of the model of explanation of this complex disease."
Re: Vascular problems in MS
· Response by jimmylegs » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:16 pm
"related academic discussion:
google scholar search:
terms: vascular "multiple sclerosis"
65100 results (up to 2008)
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=vas ... s_yhi=2008
google scholar search:
terms: vascular "multiple sclerosis" -zamboni -ccsvi :
87600 results (2009 to present)
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=vas ... 09&as_yhi=
TiMS non-academic general discussion search:
terms: vascular -zamboni -ccsvi
460 results (2004-present)
search.php?keywords=vascular&terms=all& ... mit=Search"
Response by frodo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:48 am
"I would bet that pattern III MS is of vascular origin. It has been proved that it is related to hypoxia, which damages oligodendrocytes. Probably pattern II is due to EBV virus infection of B-cells. I don't hav a clue about the other patterns."
Frodo (who I believe is an MD) regularly posts current MS research. Here is another example of research In support of my thesis that fluid circulation problems define MS.
July 30, 2018-08-02
Five-Year Longitudinal Study of Neck Vessel Cross-Sectional Area in Multiple Sclerosis
http://www.ajnr.org/content/early/2018/07/26/ajnr.A5738
BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE: Alterations of neck vessel cross-sectional area in multiple sclerosis have been reported. Our aim was to investigate the evolution of the neck vessel cross-sectional area in patients with MS and healthy controls during 5 years.
CONCLUSIONS: For 5 years, patients with MS showed significant cross-sectional area decrease of all major neck vessels,
regardless of the disease course and cardiovascular status.
July 28, 2018-07-30
PRO CCSVI by Dr Paolo Zamboni
Extracranial Veins in Multiple Sclerosis: Is There a Role for Vascular Surgery?
https://www.ejves.com/article/S1078-5884(18)30387-3/fulltext
Conclusions and Perspectives
From a pathophysiological point of view the post hoc analysis reported above suggests a role of impaired extracranial venous flow in lesion development in patients with MS, as well as the probability of significant advantages when the brain outflow is restored. This finding continues to support the CCSVI hypothesis and the contribution of the jugular flow to cerebral inflammation.
CCSVI still represents a new hypothesis to attempt to explain the pathogenesis of MS, but has not ultimately led to a viable minimally invasive sur=gical treatment option for all patients with this condition.1, 2 CCSVI presentation is complex, mostly with compressions associated with long endoluminal obstacles, where, as reported above, PTA is safe but often ineffective. We also know that the improvement of jugular vein flow achieved by open surgery in the vast majority of MS patients correlated with improved cerebral perfusion and decreased brain ventricle volume.4 But, of course, an open surgery option cannot be offered widely. Alternatively, of particular interest for the vascular surgeon and/or the interventional radiologist would be further technological development of venous stents. The latter would take into account the compliance properties of the vein wall, which, at the level of the internal jugular vein, causes a sixfold reduction in the cross sectional area when passing from the supine position to the sitting position.5
CCSVI created a great deal of controversy in the neurological community, but undoubtedly contributed to a better understanding of the function of the extracranial venous system.6
It has been demonstrated how extracranial venous function might influence brain perfusion, cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) flow, and CSF absorption.4, 7, 8 In other independent studies, the extracranial venous system was also found to be associated with other neurodegenerative conditions including Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and Meniere's diseases, suggesting the need for further investigations.9, 10, 11, 12 Vascular science is beginning to bridge the knowledge gap between the extracranial veins and the brain.
This development of vascular studies in the field of neurodegeneration is to be considered of extraordinary interest. In my opinion the cerebral vascular system plays a prominent role in the understanding of these pathologies, and the main extracranial vessels and vascular surgeons cannot be kept out of the game.
MORE POSTS BY FRODO
Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:12 am
Maybe the studies about the cervical lymphatic drainage and MS were right. We have news:
Abnormal cervical lymph nodes in multiple sclerosis: a preliminary ultrasound study
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 017-0829-4
Background
Cervical lymph nodes are the first drainage stations of the brain and therefore play a key role in neuroinflammatory disorders such as multiple sclerosis.
Objective
The aim of this study was to evaluate, by using ultrasound imaging, cervical lymph nodes in patients with multiple sclerosis and to ascertain if such patients have any clinical features to attest their role.
Methods
We enrolled 43 patients affected by relapsing–remitting multiple sclerosis (22 drug free and 21 under treatment with natalizumab or fingolimod), who underwent ultrasound examination. The morphology, diameters and volume of cervical lymph nodes were measured. We evaluated also a control group of 20 healthy volunteers.
Results
Between-group comparisons showed that the mean anteroposterior diameters in the cervical lymph nodes on both sides of the neck were significantly different (χ 2 = 19.5, p < 0.001 for right; χ 2 = 20.0, p < 0.001 for left). Post hoc contrasts showed that the mean anteroposterior diameters were greater both in drug-naive (mean ± SD 0.66 ± 0.20 cm; p < 0.001) and treated patients (0.55 ± 0.24 cm; p < 0.001) compared to healthy individuals (0.36 ± 0.19 cm). Moreover, significant difference (p < 0.001) was shown on comparing the mean volume of the cervical lymph nodes on both sides of the neck in the studied groups. No significant differences emerged between the drug-free and treated patients.
Conclusions
The abnormalities shown by ultrasound in cervical lymph nodes are related to deep ones and independent of the ongoing treatment, suggesting a relationship between lymphatic drainage and disease pathology.
TO CONTINUE FRODO POSTED THE FOLLOWING
by frodo» Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:00 pm
Hans Lassman is one of the leaders in MS research. He does not say the word "autoimmune" anymore, nor speaks too much about myelin.
Multiple Sclerosis Pathology.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29358320
Abstract
Multiple sclerosis (MS) is a chronic inflammatory demyelinating disease of the central nervous system (CNS), which gives rise to focal lesions in the gray and white matter and to diffuse neurodegeneration in the entire brain. In this review, the spectrum of MS lesions and their relation to the inflammatory process is described.
Pathology suggests that inflammation drives tissue injury at all stages of the disease.Focal inflammatory infiltrates in the meninges and the perivascular spaces appear to produce soluble factors, which induce demyelination or neurodegenerationeither directly or indirectly through microglia activation. The nature of these soluble factors, which are responsible for demyelinating activity in sera and cerebrospinal fluid of the patients, is currently undefined.Demyelination and neurodegeneration is finally accomplished by oxidative injury and mitochondrial damage leading to a state of "virtual hypoxia »
ME AGAIN/
SOLUBLE FACTORS …IN SERA AND CEREBROSPINAL FLUID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sera means blood fluid, we are talking about fluid circulation (blood/cerrebro-spinal fluid) through the central nervous system.
And finally, the latest news comes from Simon Ewart Grist who believes magnetite (iron) in the blood damages the CNS, that it can be and should be removed by venous blood flowing down the aorta to be chelated by the kidneys and excreted. The most striking improvement I am aware of concerns eyesight. More details later. One issue in removing the magnetite through the veins implies « lubricating » the endothelium to prevent venous obstructions.
Then recently « violin » has begun antibiotic treatment for Chlamydia. ‘(She is already being treated for lime disease) It has been suggested that Chlamydia has triggered an MS epidemic. (See Chlamydia, Faroe Islands) So let’s say this infection clogs up the vascular system, impedes elimination of magnetite, for example, leading to damage to the brain/spine. So for this one subset of MS patients, antibiotic treatment may lead to a « cure ». Except the focus should be on how the infection impacts blood flow, not the infection itself.
I am here throwing out various ideas I need to incorporate in my next introductory essay for MSCureEnigmas.net.
One final comment before I close. Currently Neurologists recommend launching treatment for MS as soon as possible. They are right to recommend rapid treatment, especially for RRMS, but I believe wrong in the treatment they recommend - DMDs. Yes, the sooner one launches into my Seven Steps to Multiple Sclerosis Health (for example) the better. But no one should let themselves get railroaded into drug treatment. Be informed. The drugs are potentially dangerous and one can’t be weaned off them without some serious risks if one wants to try another approach. And, according to renowned MS researcher Dr George Ebers, they don’t prevent descent into disability.
Tags : Multiple Sclerosis treatment, Dr Paolo Zamboni, Dr Sclafani, Dr Hans Lassman, Dr Michael Flanagan, Dr Damadian, CCSVI, Chlamydia,
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