Yesterday, April 6, I sent the following e-mail to a friend explaining the rational for Dr Zelenko to add Zinc to his Hydrochloroquine plus Azithromycin formulaire.to treat the Covid 19 infection. (See April 1 blog post).
Thank you for your link to the New Yorker Jerome Groopman article.
Besides vaguely referring to the correct time frame (timing is critical in administering the drugs), one has overlooked the work of Dr Zelenko whose letter prompted current interest in the USA.
Dr Zelenko has added ZINC as the third element after chloroquine and azithromycin Why is that important ? Because zinc can halt viral replication. (Zinc deficiency leades to loss of taste and smell, a major COVID 19 symptom. Those in high risk groups such as the elderly are low in zinc.)
PLOS ONE: Chloroquine Is a Zinc IonophoreTraduire cette page
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0109180
« Thus chloroquine is a zinc ionophore, a property that may contribute to chloroquine's anticancer activity »
Thus it would appear that the role of hydroxychloroquine is not simply to suppress the virus, but to help zinc pass the cell wall where it can halt viral replication.
It appears Donald Trump is behind the FDAs interest in Dr Zelenko’s research. We need to separate the message from the messenger. That goes for Dr Raoult as well. Here is a good critique of his activites.
Didier Raoult: The Trumpian French doctor behind …Traduire cette page
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/didier-raoult-hydroxychlo...
More on Cloroquine/Azithromycin. And On Dr. …Traduire cette page
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/29/more-on...
« all in all, I am pretty sure that I don’t care for Didier Raoult very much. And I don’t care for his style of research nor for his ways of expressing himself. Now, it would be a more simple world if assholes were always wrong about things, and I am not yet prepared to say that Dr. Raoult is wrong about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. But neither does he seem to be the sort of person who is always a reliable source, either. I do not take pleasure in this. But I am less hopeful about this work than I was when I first read about it, and I can only wonder what direction those hopes will take in the weeks to come. » by Dererk Lowe
Back to me. Allow me to mention again Dr Zelenko’s use of zinc supplementation which may be the key to his success with Cloroquine/Azithromycin. (And talking about assholes, a friend ruefully observed that if the Raoult/Zelenko formula successfully beats the Corona virus epidemic, we may have to credit Trump and be doomed to another 4 years.)
Of course we must depend on the honesty and reliability of the researchers, not necessarily a given. After 20 years as editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, Dr Marcia Angell had this to say about drug research.
Marcia Angell
« It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine. »
Marcia Angell
One problem about Chloroquine, it is dirt cheap, of no interest to Big Pharma. It was sold over the counter in France for 60 years, until just last year. The warning that it might be dangerous is a pathetic joke given all the poisons so easily prescribed. We may also here be faced with the Semmelweis reflex.
From Wikipedia :
« The Semmelweis reflex or "Semmelweis effect" is a metaphor for the reflex-like tendency to reject new evidence or new knowledge because it contradicts established norms, beliefs, or paradigms. The term derives from the name of a Hungarian physician, Ignaz Semmelweis, who discovered in 1847 that childbed fever mortality rates fell ten-fold when doctors disinfected their hands with a chlorine solution before moving from one patient to another, or, most particularly, after an autopsy (at one of the two maternity wards at the university hospital where Semmelweis worked, physicians performed autopsies on every deceased patient). »
Here in France one speaks of the Mandarins who don’t want to lose their control/power over the Coronavirus debate. I am reminded of Eugen Weber’s observation as to why so many MDs belonged to the Action Francaise in the 1930 ‘s « The authoritarian mentality is a professional deformation in medicine » (from memory)
There in fact may be a penury of Chloroquine. (Doctors apparently are obtaining it for themselves and family, but won’t prescribe it for their patients.) It will be a sad repeat of French elites squabbling over territory while the Americans take off with an idea developed by a French scientist.
Let’s look at what we need to know to protect ourselves.
Quantifying SARS-CoV-2 transmission suggests …Traduire cette page
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/03/30/science.abb6936
Efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in patients with …
Traduire cette page
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040758v2
« But for TTCR, the body temperature recovery time and the cough remission time were significantly shortened in the HCQ treatment group. Besides, a larger proportion of patients with improved pneumonia in the HCQ treatment group (80.6%, 25 of 32) compared with the control group (54.8%, 17 of 32). Notably, all 4 patients progressed to severe illness that occurred in the control group. However, there were 2 patients with mild adverse reactions in the HCQ treatment group. Significance: Among patients with COVID-19, the use of HCQ could significantly shorten TTCR and promote the absorption of pneumonia. »
See Moon of Alabama Moon of Alabamahttps://www.moonofalabama.org
April 3, 2020 « The Science Says MaskUp- A Look at Two New Virus Studies » « The virus starts to replicate in significant numbers (billions per mililiter) on day 2 after the infection. The virus first replicates in the upper throat and the infected person starts to spread it to others simply by breathing, talking or coughing. Only on day 5 the infected person starts to develop first symptoms. The virus migrates into the lower lung and replicates there. The virus load in the upper throat will then start to decline. The immune system intervenes and defeats the virus but also causes additional lung damage which can kill people who have already other preexisting conditions. (Interestingly smokers seem not to develop a cytokine storms during a Covid infection and are thereby less prone to end up in the ICU.) On day 10 only few viruses will be found in the upper throat and the person will generally no longer be infectious.
The typical hospitalization point in China was only on day 9 to 12 after the onset of symptoms. At that point a test by swabs is nearly useless as the infected person will normally no longer have significant numbers of the virus in the upper throat. Reports of "defective tests from China" were likely caused by a lack of knowledge about this phenomenon. The diagnosis in these later cases should be done by a CT scan which will show the lung damage. »k
My review.
Day 1 Exposure to coronavirus.
Day 2 after exposure virus replicates in upper throat and the person, unaware he is infected, spreads the virus by talking, breathing, coughing. (Should one gargle regularly with salt water « just in case » ???)
Day 5 Symptoms begin in exposed person. Virus begins to replicate in lower lung while declining in upper throat. The immune system may be able to defeat the virus, but the cytokine storm damages the lungs.
Day 10 The upper throat is virus free, the person is no longer infectious.
Day 14-17 China hospitalization. Swabs in upper throat are now negative, diagnosis only possible with CT scan of lungs.
Pre=symptomatic carriers are the most infectious so everyone needs to wear a MASK ;
Also, even if the masks aren’t hermetic which allows a virus to pass, it’s the viral load which counts. The immune system can control a small expsure which may even act as a kind of vaccination. But a large viral load will infect the exposed person who may fall ill. (Think exposed health care workers.)
80% of an exposed population will only experience minor symptoms or none at all. However, they may be carriers. I believe one should do everything possible to strengthen the immune system and remain in the 80% (while wearing a mask in case one is a carrier.)
As can be seen in the above timeline one must act quickly at the onset of symptoms, one is only 9 days away from the hospital/reannimation. At this point Dr Zelenko’s « formula » 5 day treatment would be most welcome. In fact, if it turns out to effective, confinement would no longer be necessary providing one has a quick response universal health care system.
For info, see ThisisMS,com. This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support ...https://www.thisisms.com
Their entire thread Coronavirus (COVID-19) What You Need to Know is informative. I post as Vesta.
«Post by jimmylegs » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:39 am
related research notes connecting zinc, anti-viral action, and interactions with chloroquine:
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses
(According to "jimmylegs", 220mg zinc sulfate is equivalent to 50 mg elemental zinc, 300mg would equal 68 mg elemental zinc. My kniesiologist recommends no more than 15 mg Metagenic zinc for me and 25 mg for my husband.per day. I don't know for others,one should seek an experts advice. "jimmylegs" apparently recommends 15-30 mg elemental zinc, no more than 40 mg per day under normal circumstances. In the above report she says at present she takes 50 mg per day. The following report warns against taking more than 30 mg daily. More is not better.)
Today, April 7, Paul Craig Roberts posted the following link which seconds the use of a Zinc/Hydrochloroquine combination. Let's hope research confirms the validity of Dr Zelenko's treatment protocol.
https://knowledgeofhealth.com/modern-medicine-knew-zincure-coronavirus/#more-2220
Thank you for your link to the New Yorker Jerome Groopman article.
Besides vaguely referring to the correct time frame (timing is critical in administering the drugs), one has overlooked the work of Dr Zelenko whose letter prompted current interest in the USA.
Dr Zelenko has added ZINC as the third element after chloroquine and azithromycin Why is that important ? Because zinc can halt viral replication. (Zinc deficiency leades to loss of taste and smell, a major COVID 19 symptom. Those in high risk groups such as the elderly are low in zinc.)
PLOS ONE: Chloroquine Is a Zinc IonophoreTraduire cette page
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0109180
« Thus chloroquine is a zinc ionophore, a property that may contribute to chloroquine's anticancer activity »
Thus it would appear that the role of hydroxychloroquine is not simply to suppress the virus, but to help zinc pass the cell wall where it can halt viral replication.
It appears Donald Trump is behind the FDAs interest in Dr Zelenko’s research. We need to separate the message from the messenger. That goes for Dr Raoult as well. Here is a good critique of his activites.
Didier Raoult: The Trumpian French doctor behind …Traduire cette page
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/didier-raoult-hydroxychlo...
More on Cloroquine/Azithromycin. And On Dr. …Traduire cette page
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/29/more-on...
« all in all, I am pretty sure that I don’t care for Didier Raoult very much. And I don’t care for his style of research nor for his ways of expressing himself. Now, it would be a more simple world if assholes were always wrong about things, and I am not yet prepared to say that Dr. Raoult is wrong about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. But neither does he seem to be the sort of person who is always a reliable source, either. I do not take pleasure in this. But I am less hopeful about this work than I was when I first read about it, and I can only wonder what direction those hopes will take in the weeks to come. » by Dererk Lowe
Back to me. Allow me to mention again Dr Zelenko’s use of zinc supplementation which may be the key to his success with Cloroquine/Azithromycin. (And talking about assholes, a friend ruefully observed that if the Raoult/Zelenko formula successfully beats the Corona virus epidemic, we may have to credit Trump and be doomed to another 4 years.)
Of course we must depend on the honesty and reliability of the researchers, not necessarily a given. After 20 years as editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, Dr Marcia Angell had this to say about drug research.
Marcia Angell
« It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine. »
Marcia Angell
One problem about Chloroquine, it is dirt cheap, of no interest to Big Pharma. It was sold over the counter in France for 60 years, until just last year. The warning that it might be dangerous is a pathetic joke given all the poisons so easily prescribed. We may also here be faced with the Semmelweis reflex.
From Wikipedia :
« The Semmelweis reflex or "Semmelweis effect" is a metaphor for the reflex-like tendency to reject new evidence or new knowledge because it contradicts established norms, beliefs, or paradigms. The term derives from the name of a Hungarian physician, Ignaz Semmelweis, who discovered in 1847 that childbed fever mortality rates fell ten-fold when doctors disinfected their hands with a chlorine solution before moving from one patient to another, or, most particularly, after an autopsy (at one of the two maternity wards at the university hospital where Semmelweis worked, physicians performed autopsies on every deceased patient). »
Here in France one speaks of the Mandarins who don’t want to lose their control/power over the Coronavirus debate. I am reminded of Eugen Weber’s observation as to why so many MDs belonged to the Action Francaise in the 1930 ‘s « The authoritarian mentality is a professional deformation in medicine » (from memory)
There in fact may be a penury of Chloroquine. (Doctors apparently are obtaining it for themselves and family, but won’t prescribe it for their patients.) It will be a sad repeat of French elites squabbling over territory while the Americans take off with an idea developed by a French scientist.
Let’s look at what we need to know to protect ourselves.
Quantifying SARS-CoV-2 transmission suggests …Traduire cette page
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/03/30/science.abb6936
Efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in patients with …
Traduire cette page
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040758v2
« But for TTCR, the body temperature recovery time and the cough remission time were significantly shortened in the HCQ treatment group. Besides, a larger proportion of patients with improved pneumonia in the HCQ treatment group (80.6%, 25 of 32) compared with the control group (54.8%, 17 of 32). Notably, all 4 patients progressed to severe illness that occurred in the control group. However, there were 2 patients with mild adverse reactions in the HCQ treatment group. Significance: Among patients with COVID-19, the use of HCQ could significantly shorten TTCR and promote the absorption of pneumonia. »
See Moon of Alabama Moon of Alabamahttps://www.moonofalabama.org
April 3, 2020 « The Science Says MaskUp- A Look at Two New Virus Studies » « The virus starts to replicate in significant numbers (billions per mililiter) on day 2 after the infection. The virus first replicates in the upper throat and the infected person starts to spread it to others simply by breathing, talking or coughing. Only on day 5 the infected person starts to develop first symptoms. The virus migrates into the lower lung and replicates there. The virus load in the upper throat will then start to decline. The immune system intervenes and defeats the virus but also causes additional lung damage which can kill people who have already other preexisting conditions. (Interestingly smokers seem not to develop a cytokine storms during a Covid infection and are thereby less prone to end up in the ICU.) On day 10 only few viruses will be found in the upper throat and the person will generally no longer be infectious.
The typical hospitalization point in China was only on day 9 to 12 after the onset of symptoms. At that point a test by swabs is nearly useless as the infected person will normally no longer have significant numbers of the virus in the upper throat. Reports of "defective tests from China" were likely caused by a lack of knowledge about this phenomenon. The diagnosis in these later cases should be done by a CT scan which will show the lung damage. »k
My review.
Day 1 Exposure to coronavirus.
Day 2 after exposure virus replicates in upper throat and the person, unaware he is infected, spreads the virus by talking, breathing, coughing. (Should one gargle regularly with salt water « just in case » ???)
Day 5 Symptoms begin in exposed person. Virus begins to replicate in lower lung while declining in upper throat. The immune system may be able to defeat the virus, but the cytokine storm damages the lungs.
Day 10 The upper throat is virus free, the person is no longer infectious.
Day 14-17 China hospitalization. Swabs in upper throat are now negative, diagnosis only possible with CT scan of lungs.
Pre=symptomatic carriers are the most infectious so everyone needs to wear a MASK ;
Also, even if the masks aren’t hermetic which allows a virus to pass, it’s the viral load which counts. The immune system can control a small expsure which may even act as a kind of vaccination. But a large viral load will infect the exposed person who may fall ill. (Think exposed health care workers.)
80% of an exposed population will only experience minor symptoms or none at all. However, they may be carriers. I believe one should do everything possible to strengthen the immune system and remain in the 80% (while wearing a mask in case one is a carrier.)
As can be seen in the above timeline one must act quickly at the onset of symptoms, one is only 9 days away from the hospital/reannimation. At this point Dr Zelenko’s « formula » 5 day treatment would be most welcome. In fact, if it turns out to effective, confinement would no longer be necessary providing one has a quick response universal health care system.
For info, see ThisisMS,com. This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support ...https://www.thisisms.com
Their entire thread Coronavirus (COVID-19) What You Need to Know is informative. I post as Vesta.
«Post by jimmylegs » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:39 am
related research notes connecting zinc, anti-viral action, and interactions with chloroquine:
- Effect of Chloroquine and Certain Amines, Vitamins, and Arthritis-Influencing Agents on the Zinc-Deficient Chick (1971)
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10 ... -137-35603 - Oral zinc sulphate in the treatment of recalcitrant viral warts: randomized placebo‐controlled clinical trial (2002)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11952542
- Complete Clearance of Cutaneous Warts with Hydroxychloroquine: Antiviral Action? (2014)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3969705/ - Chloroquine Is a Zinc Ionophore (2014)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4182877/ - Chloroquine as a Potential Treatment and Prevention Measure for the 2019 Novel Coronavirus: A Review (2020) (preprint)
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202003.0275/v1 - Efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in patients with COVID-19: results of a randomized clinical trial (2020)
(preprint)
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 2.full.pdf
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses
(According to "jimmylegs", 220mg zinc sulfate is equivalent to 50 mg elemental zinc, 300mg would equal 68 mg elemental zinc. My kniesiologist recommends no more than 15 mg Metagenic zinc for me and 25 mg for my husband.per day. I don't know for others,one should seek an experts advice. "jimmylegs" apparently recommends 15-30 mg elemental zinc, no more than 40 mg per day under normal circumstances. In the above report she says at present she takes 50 mg per day. The following report warns against taking more than 30 mg daily. More is not better.)
Today, April 7, Paul Craig Roberts posted the following link which seconds the use of a Zinc/Hydrochloroquine combination. Let's hope research confirms the validity of Dr Zelenko's treatment protocol.
https://knowledgeofhealth.com/modern-medicine-knew-zincure-coronavirus/#more-2220
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