The theory on Aldosterone and Cortisol would seem to give a
Scientific biochemical explanation for thousands of years of Chinese Medical
theory observation as well as bridge the gap between the practices of Neurology
and Phlebology, thus reconciling Neurologists to treating MS as a circulatory
disorder.
MAYBE.
I wrote this based on a statement made by Anonymoose on the MS site Thisisms.com
"The one thing MSers all have in common is a constant release of aldosterone and
cortisol. As far as I can tell, everything else can be explained from that
starting point...Chronic aldosterone appears to participate in
impairment of cerebral blood perfusion. "
Is this true? I don't know. I considered deleting this post, though the information may be of use to some
so I'll leave it as is. I myself have decided against her recommendation.
I favor treating the CCSVI blood reflex with physical intervention - massage, acupuncture, swimming -
anything to get the blood flowing freely. Biochemical issues arise in the importance of proper nutrition to avoid the stress of "toxic" food intolerances as well as nourish a damaged CNS and vascular system. Some may need angioplasty, some skeletal adjustment. But the biochemical factors strikes me as a secondary, after the fact consequence of the blood reflux (unless they CAUSE the reflux.) Rather like obsessing on the immune system response to a broken leg while ignoring the fracture.)
Original post:
My post on « MS : More Women than Men”, (see same title on my blog) on
Thisisms.com – CCSVI thread dated Feb. 11, 2013 9:05 am Vesta- led to the following comments.
ljelone, Feb 22, 2013
i found an interesting relationship between hormone (progesterone) and
venous disease. Maybe could help u in some way of thinking. I quoted from a
book found on the web "Medicographia95, The Venous Valve and Primary Chronic
Venous Disease", by J. Bergan :(I have a link of the book in the "venous
valve" topic)
Primary venous insufficiency
A dysfunctional venous system is caused for the main part by functional failure of
venous valves. The molecular mechanisms uncovered recently that enter into
functional valve failure are mentioned above. Other factors are
traditionally cited as contributing to venous valve failure; these include
female sex, pregnancy, obesity, a standing occupation in women,7 and
heredity.8,9 An increase in vein diamy eter is one cause of valve dysfunction
and reflux. Progesterone inhibits smooth muscle contraction. This is useful
in preventing uterine contraction and spontaneous abortion in pregnancy.
However, preventing vein wall smooth muscle contraction allows passive
dilation of veins and when a critical diameter is reached, a functioning
venous valve becomes dysfunctional or incompetent. As half of a women’s
adult lifetime is under the influence of progesterone, and
this is exacerbated markedly during pregnancy, it is no wonder that primary
venous insufficiency is twice as common in women than in men.7"
This implies that progesterone damages the venous valves which could account
for the greater incidence of MS among women.
Anonymoose, who is apparently an MD and/or has a scientific background, commented that
progesterone protected women from MS. I admit I misunderstood her at first. She used the post to
discuss another issue which is nonetheless of interest. Her comments follow. .
The one thing MSers all have in common is a constant release of aldosterone and
cortiso"l. As far as I can tell, everything else can be explained from that
starting point...Chronic aldosterone appears to participate in
impairment of cerebral blood perfusion. "
"I can also tell you that I have experienced
improvements whilst inhibiting aldosterone and cortisol with low dose clonidine
and a couple 1/2 cups of hibiscus tea a day (I need between .1 and .2 mg of
clonidine and they don't have in between patch doses). My chronic painful stiff
neck and shoulders are relaxed. I have regained sensitivity in my hands and
nothing buzzes like it used to with stress or activity. I did have some weird
sensations while finding the right dose. My energy is back to normal. My mind is
crystal clear. I'm very early in ms so I don't really have anything else to
improve beyond getting the rest of my hands back. It's working. If there weren't
a strong connection, it would not be working.
I think it is a big mistake to ignore our constant release of aldosterone.”
Then on Feb 28, 2013 under General Discussion "Very Successful Treatment with
Rituxan" "Potts" posted an article describing how his doctor prescribed a
Rituxan injection with impressive results which resemble the
improvements seen after effective angioplasty.
Anonymoose commented:
"I am experiencing similar improvements by inhibiting cortisol
and aldosterone with clonidine and hibiscus tea. I wonder if you aren't
experiencing improvements for the same reason. Rituxan decreases cortisol and
aldosterone in 5/6 patients with Addison's. I wonder if it works the same
with chronic hpa activation in MS.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22767640/"
My response:
"The theory on Aldosterone and Cortisol would seem to give a
Scientific biochemical explanation for thousands of years of Chinese Medical
theory observation as well as bridge the gap between the practices of Neurology
and Phlebology, thus reconciling Neurologists to treating MS as a circulatory
disorder.
I have described on my site how I feel Chinese
Medical theory might explain the epidemiological factors in MS with emphasis on
the Meridiens running from the head down the neck, shoulders and spine – Gall
Bladder and Bladder. After I heard about Dr. Zamboni’s CCSVI theory I began to
give myself daily Acupressure treatments to open blood circulation from the head
using these Meridiens, thus keeping my disease under control. The Bladder
meridian partner is the Kidney meridian which is actually the Kidney/Adrenals,
belonging to the Water element which is injured through cold and Fear. There you
have it. Fight or Flight. Stress. So the Acupuncture treatments open the blood
circulation, at least temporarily, and relieve the blood reflux. I believe the
detoxification/supplement/nutritional therapies prevent the stress
caused by food intolerances which in turn minimises the muscle tension. Put another way, they
probably have a biochemical impact on the hormones which trigger the
muscular/vascular stress. This implies they impact the Aldosterone and Cortisol..
Scientific research begins with observation. Why ignore what the Chinese have
observed over thousands of years.
If a low dose Clonidine patch and Hibiscus Tea suffice to put an end to a “chronic painful
stiff neck and shoulders” and accompanying MS symptoms (caused by blood reflux
into the Central Nervous System ?), Neurologists can prescribe this at least at
first before launching the patient into potentially harmful (and useless ?)
immunosuppressive drugs, and patients will feel re-assured they are being
treated by real medicine since they are often wary of anything smacking of“natural”
healing.
Also, if the patient suffers from a more serious CCSVI stenosis, Neurologists might more freely refer
her to an Interventional Radiologist without feeling upstaged.
I then looked up Rituxan to discover it is a chemotherapy drug. No thanks.
Clonidine patches used by "Anonymoose" are prescribed for high blood pressure, ADHD, migraines, and drug
withdrawal (among many other things) and they are not without side effects, though obviously
minor compared to immunosuppressive drugs..The Hibiscus Tea must be a powerful herbal
remedy since after drinking 2/3 of a cup (too much) late afternoon I felt sick
and fell into a deep sleep. I can’t imagine why, perhaps that was a
momentary fluke. Interesting tie in by Anonymoose again Feb 26, 2013
" I did some googling and found that hibiscus tea (which btw used to be a
very common drink in equatorial regions...hmmm) is an ACE inhibitor/aldo blocker
that rivals lisinopril in effectiveness."But in reality I don’t need these things. (I already take
Standard Process Drenamin which may sufficiently address the Aldosterone
issue.)
Consider that gluten intolerance, lactose intolerance and dietary
imbalances impact hormones leading to menstrual cramps, endometriosis and PMS,
and why not? the MS as well.
I would say that Anonymoose’s MS falls into the
Toxic MS category (see Five MS Types blog) and
that she does not have a physical obstruction or stenosis
requiring Angioplasty. The Toxic factors are the Aldesterone and cortisone, perhaps triggered or exacerbated by the stress of gluten poisoning and other food intolerances. She has apparently pinpointed the biochemical factors which trigger the stress-causing muscular/vascular tension in the Toxic form of CCSVI MS.
Anonymoose has chosen the drug Clonidine and the Hibiscus tea
to chemically reduce the aldosterone and cortisone
which is causing the muscle/vascular tension and blood reflex.
She has belatedly warned me (March 12, 2013) that those with low blood pressure should not take
Clonidine and Hibiscus Tea. I have low blood pressure and reacted very
negatively to Hibiscus Tea.
Another choice might be to follow a nutritional therapy to prevent
elevated aldosterone and cortisone levels. Said therapy might be better for
her overall health in the long run. On the other hand, if she is able to stop
neurological damage using these chemicals, that would be easier and in
itself is well worth it. Maybe she can do both. (Her fingers did shrivel up
when she used the too strong .2 mg Clonidine patch so she reduced her dose to .1 mg.)
Other drugs which impact blood circulation have been suggested of interest
in treating CCSVI MS. Wheelchair Kamikaze mentions Lisinopril (Zestril)
in his April 30, 2010 post. I'll repeat the interesting tie in by Anonymoose
" I did some googling and found that hibiscus tea (which btw used to be a
very common drink in equatorial regions...hmmm) is an ACE inhibitor/aldo blocker
that rivals lisinopril in effectiveness." Viagra, another drug impacting blood circulation,
was mentioned in a comment (since disappeared)
made to my Daily Kos article MS: Cure or Control Revolt.
For my overall health and well being, I’ll stick with my treatment
recommendations. But if someone wants a quick fix drug, probably the Clonidine
patch/Hibiscus tea might be a good solution, taking account of blood pressure. Real vein
abnormalities will probably require angioplasty.
These ideas could help remove MS from the Neurologists’ monopoly.
Also free MS patients from toxic drugs.
Scientific biochemical explanation for thousands of years of Chinese Medical
theory observation as well as bridge the gap between the practices of Neurology
and Phlebology, thus reconciling Neurologists to treating MS as a circulatory
disorder.
MAYBE.
I wrote this based on a statement made by Anonymoose on the MS site Thisisms.com
"The one thing MSers all have in common is a constant release of aldosterone and
cortisol. As far as I can tell, everything else can be explained from that
starting point...Chronic aldosterone appears to participate in
impairment of cerebral blood perfusion. "
Is this true? I don't know. I considered deleting this post, though the information may be of use to some
so I'll leave it as is. I myself have decided against her recommendation.
I favor treating the CCSVI blood reflex with physical intervention - massage, acupuncture, swimming -
anything to get the blood flowing freely. Biochemical issues arise in the importance of proper nutrition to avoid the stress of "toxic" food intolerances as well as nourish a damaged CNS and vascular system. Some may need angioplasty, some skeletal adjustment. But the biochemical factors strikes me as a secondary, after the fact consequence of the blood reflux (unless they CAUSE the reflux.) Rather like obsessing on the immune system response to a broken leg while ignoring the fracture.)
Original post:
My post on « MS : More Women than Men”, (see same title on my blog) on
Thisisms.com – CCSVI thread dated Feb. 11, 2013 9:05 am Vesta- led to the following comments.
ljelone, Feb 22, 2013
i found an interesting relationship between hormone (progesterone) and
venous disease. Maybe could help u in some way of thinking. I quoted from a
book found on the web "Medicographia95, The Venous Valve and Primary Chronic
Venous Disease", by J. Bergan :(I have a link of the book in the "venous
valve" topic)
Primary venous insufficiency
A dysfunctional venous system is caused for the main part by functional failure of
venous valves. The molecular mechanisms uncovered recently that enter into
functional valve failure are mentioned above. Other factors are
traditionally cited as contributing to venous valve failure; these include
female sex, pregnancy, obesity, a standing occupation in women,7 and
heredity.8,9 An increase in vein diamy eter is one cause of valve dysfunction
and reflux. Progesterone inhibits smooth muscle contraction. This is useful
in preventing uterine contraction and spontaneous abortion in pregnancy.
However, preventing vein wall smooth muscle contraction allows passive
dilation of veins and when a critical diameter is reached, a functioning
venous valve becomes dysfunctional or incompetent. As half of a women’s
adult lifetime is under the influence of progesterone, and
this is exacerbated markedly during pregnancy, it is no wonder that primary
venous insufficiency is twice as common in women than in men.7"
This implies that progesterone damages the venous valves which could account
for the greater incidence of MS among women.
Anonymoose, who is apparently an MD and/or has a scientific background, commented that
progesterone protected women from MS. I admit I misunderstood her at first. She used the post to
discuss another issue which is nonetheless of interest. Her comments follow. .
The one thing MSers all have in common is a constant release of aldosterone and
cortiso"l. As far as I can tell, everything else can be explained from that
starting point...Chronic aldosterone appears to participate in
impairment of cerebral blood perfusion. "
"I can also tell you that I have experienced
improvements whilst inhibiting aldosterone and cortisol with low dose clonidine
and a couple 1/2 cups of hibiscus tea a day (I need between .1 and .2 mg of
clonidine and they don't have in between patch doses). My chronic painful stiff
neck and shoulders are relaxed. I have regained sensitivity in my hands and
nothing buzzes like it used to with stress or activity. I did have some weird
sensations while finding the right dose. My energy is back to normal. My mind is
crystal clear. I'm very early in ms so I don't really have anything else to
improve beyond getting the rest of my hands back. It's working. If there weren't
a strong connection, it would not be working.
I think it is a big mistake to ignore our constant release of aldosterone.”
Then on Feb 28, 2013 under General Discussion "Very Successful Treatment with
Rituxan" "Potts" posted an article describing how his doctor prescribed a
Rituxan injection with impressive results which resemble the
improvements seen after effective angioplasty.
Anonymoose commented:
"I am experiencing similar improvements by inhibiting cortisol
and aldosterone with clonidine and hibiscus tea. I wonder if you aren't
experiencing improvements for the same reason. Rituxan decreases cortisol and
aldosterone in 5/6 patients with Addison's. I wonder if it works the same
with chronic hpa activation in MS.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22767640/"
My response:
"The theory on Aldosterone and Cortisol would seem to give a
Scientific biochemical explanation for thousands of years of Chinese Medical
theory observation as well as bridge the gap between the practices of Neurology
and Phlebology, thus reconciling Neurologists to treating MS as a circulatory
disorder.
I have described on my site how I feel Chinese
Medical theory might explain the epidemiological factors in MS with emphasis on
the Meridiens running from the head down the neck, shoulders and spine – Gall
Bladder and Bladder. After I heard about Dr. Zamboni’s CCSVI theory I began to
give myself daily Acupressure treatments to open blood circulation from the head
using these Meridiens, thus keeping my disease under control. The Bladder
meridian partner is the Kidney meridian which is actually the Kidney/Adrenals,
belonging to the Water element which is injured through cold and Fear. There you
have it. Fight or Flight. Stress. So the Acupuncture treatments open the blood
circulation, at least temporarily, and relieve the blood reflux. I believe the
detoxification/supplement/nutritional therapies prevent the stress
caused by food intolerances which in turn minimises the muscle tension. Put another way, they
probably have a biochemical impact on the hormones which trigger the
muscular/vascular stress. This implies they impact the Aldosterone and Cortisol..
Scientific research begins with observation. Why ignore what the Chinese have
observed over thousands of years.
If a low dose Clonidine patch and Hibiscus Tea suffice to put an end to a “chronic painful
stiff neck and shoulders” and accompanying MS symptoms (caused by blood reflux
into the Central Nervous System ?), Neurologists can prescribe this at least at
first before launching the patient into potentially harmful (and useless ?)
immunosuppressive drugs, and patients will feel re-assured they are being
treated by real medicine since they are often wary of anything smacking of“natural”
healing.
Also, if the patient suffers from a more serious CCSVI stenosis, Neurologists might more freely refer
her to an Interventional Radiologist without feeling upstaged.
I then looked up Rituxan to discover it is a chemotherapy drug. No thanks.
Clonidine patches used by "Anonymoose" are prescribed for high blood pressure, ADHD, migraines, and drug
withdrawal (among many other things) and they are not without side effects, though obviously
minor compared to immunosuppressive drugs..The Hibiscus Tea must be a powerful herbal
remedy since after drinking 2/3 of a cup (too much) late afternoon I felt sick
and fell into a deep sleep. I can’t imagine why, perhaps that was a
momentary fluke. Interesting tie in by Anonymoose again Feb 26, 2013
" I did some googling and found that hibiscus tea (which btw used to be a
very common drink in equatorial regions...hmmm) is an ACE inhibitor/aldo blocker
that rivals lisinopril in effectiveness."But in reality I don’t need these things. (I already take
Standard Process Drenamin which may sufficiently address the Aldosterone
issue.)
Consider that gluten intolerance, lactose intolerance and dietary
imbalances impact hormones leading to menstrual cramps, endometriosis and PMS,
and why not? the MS as well.
I would say that Anonymoose’s MS falls into the
Toxic MS category (see Five MS Types blog) and
that she does not have a physical obstruction or stenosis
requiring Angioplasty. The Toxic factors are the Aldesterone and cortisone, perhaps triggered or exacerbated by the stress of gluten poisoning and other food intolerances. She has apparently pinpointed the biochemical factors which trigger the stress-causing muscular/vascular tension in the Toxic form of CCSVI MS.
Anonymoose has chosen the drug Clonidine and the Hibiscus tea
to chemically reduce the aldosterone and cortisone
which is causing the muscle/vascular tension and blood reflex.
She has belatedly warned me (March 12, 2013) that those with low blood pressure should not take
Clonidine and Hibiscus Tea. I have low blood pressure and reacted very
negatively to Hibiscus Tea.
Another choice might be to follow a nutritional therapy to prevent
elevated aldosterone and cortisone levels. Said therapy might be better for
her overall health in the long run. On the other hand, if she is able to stop
neurological damage using these chemicals, that would be easier and in
itself is well worth it. Maybe she can do both. (Her fingers did shrivel up
when she used the too strong .2 mg Clonidine patch so she reduced her dose to .1 mg.)
Other drugs which impact blood circulation have been suggested of interest
in treating CCSVI MS. Wheelchair Kamikaze mentions Lisinopril (Zestril)
in his April 30, 2010 post. I'll repeat the interesting tie in by Anonymoose
" I did some googling and found that hibiscus tea (which btw used to be a
very common drink in equatorial regions...hmmm) is an ACE inhibitor/aldo blocker
that rivals lisinopril in effectiveness." Viagra, another drug impacting blood circulation,
was mentioned in a comment (since disappeared)
made to my Daily Kos article MS: Cure or Control Revolt.
For my overall health and well being, I’ll stick with my treatment
recommendations. But if someone wants a quick fix drug, probably the Clonidine
patch/Hibiscus tea might be a good solution, taking account of blood pressure. Real vein
abnormalities will probably require angioplasty.
These ideas could help remove MS from the Neurologists’ monopoly.
Also free MS patients from toxic drugs.
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